Hello,

Is it possible to use computer that have no internet connection (not even dialup) to perform calculations?

I do have access to a computer with a fast connection which I can use to upload/download data (and move it from there to the offline machine).

Thanks!


Jörg

In principle you can. The easiest way would seem to be to copy the whole BOINC folder at the beginning and end of the run, and this will grow to about 700MB. It would be best if you can make a direct connection between the two machines for this - copying onto CD/DVD and transferring that way <i>could</i> be done, but the files would become read only and all have to be changed back each time.

After the run is complete, move the files from the project folder for that run into a different folder, or onto CD/DVD, to keep the BOINC folder size down.

I'm not sure I'll go for it, but I'm just checking my options...

Thanks for the info!


Jörg

Do I need to install two boinc clients on the computer that has internet access?
(i.e. one for local crunching, and a second one to use only for the transfers regarding the offline computer)


Jörg

&gt; Do I need to install two boinc clients on the computer that has internet
&gt; access?
&gt; (i.e. one for local crunching, and a second one to use only for the transfers
&gt; regarding the offline computer)
&gt;

You would certainly need to keep the two separate. But unless you know what you are doing, and are willing to concentrate on getting it right every time, you are asking for trouble! You could not run both at once. You would have to suspend and close the BOINC client that you normally ran on the internet connected machine, rename the folder, create a new BOINC folder and download a new WU, move that to the other machine, rename the old BOINC folder back to its own name, then go through the process again when the other one was ready to upload. That is missing out several steps, which is why you have to understand the whole process. I have not heard of anyone doing it but it might work.

That's assuming that there are no problems at the server end, though I think you should be alright with CPDN.

An easier way to do much the same thing, though you would not earn any BOINC credits, is to run CPDN classic on the machine without internet connection. They both run similar climate models, but you would not run into the difficulties I outline above. See <a href="http://www.climateprediction.net/board/viewtopic.php?t=1977">here</a> for the list of clients - v2.2.29 is the one you would choose for this.

&gt; You would certainly need to keep the two separate. But unless you know what
&gt; you are doing, and are willing to concentrate on getting it right every time,
&gt; you are asking for trouble! You could not run both at once. You would have to
&gt; suspend and close the BOINC client that you normally ran on the internet
&gt; connected machine, rename the folder, create a new BOINC folder and download a
&gt; new WU, move that to the other machine, rename the old BOINC folder back to
&gt; its own name, then go through the process again when the other one was ready
&gt; to upload. That is missing out several steps, which is why you have to
&gt; understand the whole process. I have not heard of anyone doing it but it might
&gt; work.

Isn't it possible to have two seperate installtions of the BOINC client on one PC? That way, each BOINC would have its own folder, and I could just copy one of these clients to and from the offline machine..?

If this won't work, I can imagine the manual process to be cumbersome. The BOINC folder you refer to (with the renaming), is that
program files\boinc\project\climateprediction.net ?

&gt; An easier way to do much the same thing, though you would not earn any BOINC
&gt; credits, is to run CPDN classic on the machine without internet connection.
&gt; They both run similar climate models, but you would not run into the
&gt; difficulties I outline above. See <a> href="http://www.climateprediction.net/board/viewtopic.php?t=1977"&gt;here</a>
&gt; for the list of clients - v2.2.29 is the one you would choose for this.

Hmm... Someone challenged me to pass his number of credits :-) ... So for this the credits would matter. Still, if it doesn't work with the credits, it is nice to have an alternative.


Jörg

&gt; The BOINC folder you refer to (with the renaming), is that
&gt; program filesboincprojectclimateprediction.net

Hmm, my slashes seem to have gone. I meant
program files_boinc_project_climateprediciton.net

(the _ should be backslashes)


Jörg

&gt; Isn't it possible to have two seperate installtions of the BOINC client on one
&gt; PC? That way, each BOINC would have its own folder, and I could just copy one
&gt; of these clients to and from the offline machine..?
&gt;

Remember that Windows tries to keep track of where everything is, and it isn't simply a case of just choosing which location from which to run the client. Perhaps some bright spark can suggest a different solution to mine. Don't take everything I say as the final word.

&gt; If this won't work, I can imagine the manual process to be cumbersome. The
&gt; BOINC folder you refer to (with the renaming), is that
&gt; program files boinc project climateprediction.net ?

Unfortunately not. The BOINC client controls the project, and there a number of files to worry about besides those in the project folder. Of course, you <i>could</i> just copy those, but it is much easier and safer to copy/rename the whole BOINC folder.

If the computers are networked together, the simplest solution would be to install a proxy and use that.
<a href="http://www.boinc.dk/index.php?page=user_statistics&amp;project=cpdn&amp;userid=13"><img border="0" height="80" src="http://13.cpdn.sig.boinc.dk?188"></a>

&gt; If the computers are networked together, the simplest solution would be to
&gt; install a proxy and use that.
&gt; <a> href="http://www.boinc.dk/index.php?page=user_statistics&amp;project=cpdn&amp;userid=13"&gt;<img> border="0" height="80" src="http://13.cpdn.sig.boinc.dk?188"&gt;</a>
&gt;
They have not network connection at all (physically, they are in different locations).

I've read some other threads more or less related, and will try it like this:
1. install BOINC on the non-networked PC
2. make a backup copy my BOINC folder on the networked PC
3. copy the BOINC folder of 1. to the BOINC folder of the networked PC (using CD / USB storage)
4. download the unit
5. copy the BOINC-folder with unit (to CD / USB storage)
6. restore the backup made in 2 (on the networked PC)
7. copy the folder from 5 to the non-networked PC.

After the crunching (can I work with trickles, or must I wait for the whole unit to finish?), I would do the same steps. I expect that in step 4, the data will now be uploaded to the server.


Jörg

I think this covers it. Remember that if you do use CD for transfer then you will need to write enable the files each time. And at step 4 you will need to attach to the project before you can download.

Trickles are not important except in telling the server how you are getting along. The 'mega trickles' at the end of phases 1 and 2 contain some data, but you will not need to connect to the network until the end of the run.

There is a bug in the current BOINC client which means that you will need to disable network access each time you restart BOINC on the machine without network access.

&gt; I think this covers it. Remember that if you do use CD for transfer then you
&gt; will need to write enable the files each time. And at step 4 you will need to
&gt; attach to the project before you can download.

Ok!

&gt; Trickles are not important except in telling the server how you are getting
&gt; along. The 'mega trickles' at the end of phases 1 and 2 contain some data, but
&gt; you will not need to connect to the network until the end of the run.

Well, I'm trying to pass someone (he just added 4 PCs :-(), so it could be fun to upload trickles every now and then.

&gt; There is a bug in the current BOINC client which means that you will need to
&gt; disable network access each time you restart BOINC on the machine without
&gt; network access.

Ok!

Euhm, one more thing: will it appear as a second computer to the server (even though it will be up/downloaded with the same computer)? If not, I might have to play around with some settings a bit...


Jörg

&gt; Euhm, one more thing: will it appear as a second computer to the server (even
&gt; though it will be up/downloaded with the same computer)? If not, I might have
&gt; to play around with some settings a bit...

I think that the server will just record it as a second computer when you attach, identical of course to the first. That should be OK, but bear in mind that I don't know whether anyone has actually done what you are suggesting, so it is possible that you will run into a problem somewhere!

With CPDN it should not matter for credit purposes, etc, that the computer where you are actually doing the crunching is not the same as the one where you are connecting to the server. That isn't true for SETI, and others where credits are calculated differently.

&gt; I think that the server will just record it as a second computer when you
&gt; attach, identical of course to the first. That should be OK, but bear in mind
&gt; that I don't know whether anyone has actually done what you are suggesting, so
&gt; it is possible that you will run into a problem somewhere!

Only one way to find out...
I'll install the client on the non-networked PC this afternoon, and swap the boinc-folders as planned (steps 1-6).

We'll see if and how it works...
(I'll report back here)

Thanks for the assistance!


Jörg

&gt; &gt; I think that the server will just record it as a second computer when
&gt; you
&gt; &gt; attach, identical of course to the first. That should be OK, but bear in
&gt; mind
&gt; &gt; that I don't know whether anyone has actually done what you are
&gt; suggesting, so
&gt; &gt; it is possible that you will run into a problem somewhere!
&gt;
&gt; Only one way to find out...
&gt; I'll install the client on the non-networked PC this afternoon, and swap the
&gt; boinc-folders as planned (steps 1-6).

It does indeed create a second computer. Currently it is downloading work, I'll suspend it once all data has arrived, and verify tonight if my home PC does indeed start crunching.

(hopefully, I have my settings for multiprocessor correct, as my machine at home is a dual Xeon, but my machine at work is a P4)


Jörg

Everything works !


I'm writing the necessary steps (and the possible issues) to make a tutorial for other people that want to do the same.



Jörg

&gt; Everything works !
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I'm writing the necessary steps (and the possible issues) to make a tutorial
&gt; for other people that want to do the same.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Jörg


That's nice to see, that it works. I used to run seti on my work computer with no internet-access.
I'm going to try to use your steps too for copying BOINC to my work-computer.

Thx

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What would be really useful for this is a 1GB USB flash drive, of course. Especially if you can get the firm to buy one. ;)

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