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Message boards : Number crunching : Trojan boinc installation by rogue member

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Profile mo.v
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Message 27479 - Posted: 24 Mar 2007, 11:42:58 UTC
Last modified: 24 Mar 2007, 12:00:57 UTC

Everybody including refugees is more than welcome to post and discuss here, and also on the cpdn php forum (link in my sig) where you don\'t even need to be a cpdn or boinc project cruncher to register. If you register there, please keep the same username so we recognise each other.

After looking at W\'s Predictor page again

http://predictor.scripps.edu/show_user.php?userid=75192

Although W had belonged to 3 boinc projects (uFluids, Einstein and BURP) earlier and apparently legitimately, he attached to cpdn, Rosetta, Predictor and SIMAP all on the same day, 1 June 2006. I\'d guess that all the new project attachments were in preparation for the release of the trojan, probably a day later.

One of the cpdn mods has suggested that if Predictor and the Scripps Institute have such faith in W***, they are welcome to run all their research projects using his computers........
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Message 27480 - Posted: 24 Mar 2007, 12:48:19 UTC - in response to Message 27479.

...One of the cpdn mods has suggested that if Predictor and the Scripps Institute have such faith in W***, they are welcome to run all their research projects using his computers........

*LOL* Would be a perfect solution... they deserve each other [sarcasm mode!! ;-)] and no mesage boards would be needed anymore as well.
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Message 27481 - Posted: 24 Mar 2007, 14:03:25 UTC - in response to Message 27479.

Although W had belonged to 3 boinc projects (uFluids, Einstein and BURP) earlier and apparently legitimately, he attached to cpdn, Rosetta, Predictor and SIMAP all on the same day, 1 June 2006.....

Proofreader\'s note: the uFluids join date {29 Aug 2006} is later than his busy sign-up day.

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Message 27482 - Posted: 24 Mar 2007, 14:40:04 UTC

Oops, thanks for pointing that out.
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Message 27484 - Posted: 24 Mar 2007, 17:46:11 UTC

My email to Mr Braun sent and very politely acknowledged by him.
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Message 27488 - Posted: 24 Mar 2007, 21:34:06 UTC - in response to Message 27484.

My email to Mr Braun sent and very politely acknowledged by him.

Thank you again. :-)
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Message 27491 - Posted: 25 Mar 2007, 1:15:57 UTC

I have never seen such anger, free speech is a right to all, and if for no good reason withheld, the anger is clear.

Censorship is the last resort ( if comments are within the law of the land and decency, no arguments can stand against the poster, only the admin.), if used in haste it only compounds the problems for all, namely the fool that tried it, to calm a situation.

It is clear from all the links and having read a bit of the forum mentioned as to get an idea, simple just don\'t crunch for it and delete it from your portfolio (before doing so, read on a bit).

Post any were you can get a clear and uncensored opinion out, to reasonable crunchers, and then if all else fails, a full bodied campaign against joining the forum! Just one point if the project is good for all in your opinion continue to crunch for the betterment of all, if not in you\'re opinion, as above leave it and never darken your time with them again.
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Message 27495 - Posted: 25 Mar 2007, 9:57:45 UTC

Mr. Braun has responded:

http://predictor.scripps.edu/forum_thread.php?id=2546&nowrap=true#13868

\"David Lee Braun\" wrote:
Message 13868 - Posted 25 Mar 2007 0:16:22 UTC

I\'ve locked this thread to keep this message at the top.

The Trojan issue: I have never said anywhere that I was not going to do anything about the Trojan user. What I said was that I was not going to do anything just because there was a post on the web. I don\'t visit any other projects forums and I don\'t know anybody at the other projects. There is a mailing list for projects that as far as I know all projects are subscribed to. There has been no mention of this until last night there. I believe it is inappropriate to post the name of a suspected cheater on the forums and this has brought out all sorts of childish behavior and accusations. If I had noticed something suspicious I would have either mailed the BOINC folks directly or sent mail asking other projects to check to see if the problem exists on there sites. If I posted something in the forums I would have not given a user name and just a description of the issue so that users are aware. After the thread appeared in our forums two other threads were created accusing people of cheating. I deleted those threads because the accusations were just plain wrong and I locked the Trojan thread asking the users not to create a new one.

I really don\'t think that this is any of your business, but that night I sent mail to the user in question asking for a response. Last night a lady, who I do not know sent me mail from claiming to be from CDPN. The return address was a hotmail account. I believe this person was who she said she was, but it did remind me of the weekly mail I get from ebay asking me to update the account I\'ve never created. This illustrates the point that seems to be universally missed here. The web can give credibility to ANYBODY. A post and discussion on the projects mailing list by project administrators would give credibility to this issue. A forum post has no credibility. If you disagree with this you should look at some of the thing you say in the forums. I read them all.

I will not delete someones account just because an angry mob instructs me to.

Freedom of Speech issue: I think that schools have really failed here. Freedom of speech does not mean that you can say anything anywhere you want. It means that I can criticize the government, which I do often, and there is nothing that they can do about it. It does not mean that you can walk into my house to express your opinion, you can\'t use my phone, computer, wireless, or the P@H server without permission. That permission can be revoked at any time. If you invite me to your home and discover that I like to talk about the KKK, which most people might find offensive, you can ask me to leave. If I refuse to leave you can call the police and have me arrested. There is no freedom of speech issue here. When you are on someone\'s property and you are ask to leave you have to leave.

I did not think the Trojan thread was appropriate and it appeared to be spawning other similar discussions. I locked the thread. If the user community had any respect at all that would have been the end of it. You would have been free to take the discussion to one of the many other forums. There is no freedom of speech issue here.

Several users decided that they were going to ignore my request and reopened the thread. Again, it\'s not your server. It\'s mine. Just as a property manager or security guard can ask you to leave a shopping mall I can ask you to leave our server. I used the boinc \'banish\' function which suspends the users ability to create threads for a week or so. Had these users just gone elsewhere that would have been the end of it. Instead they created new accounts and more threads, which I started blocking and deleting. At this point their behavior, does not matter if you agree with my deleting the posts or not, is criminal. The banish message states that you are not able to post until such and such date. This is like returning to the shopping mall after a guard has told you to leave. You have no right to return. One user boasted that he could change his ip address after I blocked it. His posts made it clear that he understood that he had been banished and was doing everything he could to get around it. This is criminal behavior. A number of you have stated that we are endorsing criminal behavior by not deleting the trojan users account. Then you behave like this. I think most adults would have simply left. An adult may have disagreed, and contacted my by email..which is at the bottom of all my posts along with my address and phone number. Thats not what the people here did.

If I go to your home and you ask me to leave I\'m gone. I have no idea what you are thinking. Looking at this thread it looks as if the average P@H forum user is a 12 year old. One lady ask me in a post to delete her account, so I did. Then she sent me mail calling me an asshole and declared war. Our freinds who repeatedly created new accounts sent me mail explaining that they were going to create threads everywhere, which they did. Look at what people have written in this thread. Who are you people? What is wrong with you?

I was unsatisfied with my mechanic. I stopped going to him. I didn\'t harass him. I didn\'t threaten him. I didn\'t like the work he did so I found someone else. I didn\'t put a billboard up outside his shop calling him names. There are some sick people here.

This all started because I know how people act in the forums and I wanted to put out a fire before it got out of hand. I\'ve been with predictor for a while now and I know how people can be in the forums but I had no idea that people have this much free time and so little maturity.

I got a mail from a team captain in Germany threatening to boycott the site if we continue to endorse criminal activity. It\'s ironic that one of his people is on the list of people who created multiple accounts to get around being banished. If this is how your people act then don\'t threaten, I demand that you disconnect for predictor.

The bottom line is this. If you do not like P@H go somewhere else. Please. There are a large number of projects to choose from and if you look hard enough I\'m sure that you will find one you like.

And finally: To respond to all the personal attacks I see this mess as a reflection on the character of the eight or so users who\'s tantrum started all this. You were told you couldn\'t do something so you through a fit.

dlb

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David Lee Braun
Predictor@Home
Manager of Computational Facilities
for Dr Charles L. Brooks, III
Department of Molecular Biology, TPC6
The Scripps Research Institute
La Jolla, CA 92037
(858) 784-7427
dbraun@scripps.edu



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Message 27501 - Posted: 25 Mar 2007, 12:30:20 UTC

Wate\'s account has been blocked on PAH. All David has for a problem now is how to easily zero the credits without breaking the database. I\'ve asked him to email Carl on that, as he knows what not to do. ;-)
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Message 27513 - Posted: 26 Mar 2007, 1:25:27 UTC
Last modified: 26 Mar 2007, 1:54:17 UTC

Ageless/Jorden\'s post above shows that David Braun at Predictor now knows about W*** and is taking steps to put the situation right. I have received emails from Mr Braun and can confirm that this is the case. He is reluctant to zero W***\'s credits by going into the database, which I can understand. The Predictor forum now needs time to get back to normal.

If you have been banned from PAH, please be patient in the hope that a satisfactory solution can be found.

I have reluctantly deleted two posts, by George Rothfuss and Misfit, sending them emails to explain my decision.

This thread is for discussion of W*** and the trojan. It should not be used for unreasoned criticism of a fellow boinc project or of that project\'s administrator while steps are being taken there to put things right. I would accept that reasoned discussion of the steps being taken is legitimate. Such discussion would, however, really be more appropriate on the Predictor forum where Mr Braun will read it. So if you can post on Predictor, that is where you should post about Predictor.

Many threads on this topic on other forums have been removed or locked. Please post positively, in spite of the difficult circumstances, to enable us to keep this thread open.
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Message 27550 - Posted: 27 Mar 2007, 14:29:39 UTC

I have moved a post by Dagorath to the thread about Predictor in the Cafe. Dagorath has been informed of my reasons by email.
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