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Message 32022 - Posted 5 Jan 2008 21:10:46 UTC

    Last modified: 5 Jan 2008 21:12:55 UTC

    I picked up this wu a couple of days ago. I can see it sending trickle_up messages, yet the result shows \"No Trickles\".

    I saw that there had been some credit problems around Christmas, but can also see that my team mates trickles are appearing normally.

    Anything to check?
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    Message 32023 - Posted 5 Jan 2008 21:24:57 UTC


      There are some problems with the servers at certain times of the day, but, provided that the trickles have left your computer, and you got \"succeeded\" after the \"schedular request\", then it\'s just a matter of waiting a few hours.

      The credit problem was just the export file not getting created on time, and missing the stats site update time for that day.

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      Message 32025 - Posted 6 Jan 2008 1:01:45 UTC - in response to Message 32022.

        Last modified: 6 Jan 2008 1:07:42 UTC

        ...
        Anything to check?


        Usually it\'s just a case of waiting, as Les says. The other thing you need to keep in mind is that there are a couple of different types of trickle - one merely means \'I\'ve resumed running\', and doesn\'t count towards credit or get displayed.

        What percentage through is your model? Slab models have 72 trickles in total, so it must be at least 1.38% of the way through before the first \'real\' trickle is sent.

        The trickle updates are lagging behind by at least two hours (I had one sent at 22:42, and it\'s registered on the site at 00:29).

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        Message 32030 - Posted 6 Jan 2008 10:16:58 UTC

          Last modified: 6 Jan 2008 10:23:08 UTC

          02-Jan-2008 21:17:27 [climateprediction.net] Sending scheduler request: To send trickle-up message.
          02-Jan-2008 21:17:32 [climateprediction.net] Scheduler request succeeded:
          03-Jan-2008 01:03:06 [climateprediction.net] Sending scheduler request: To send trickle-up message.
          03-Jan-2008 01:03:15 [climateprediction.net] Scheduler request succeeded:
          03-Jan-2008 17:21:23 [climateprediction.net] Sending scheduler request: To send trickle-up message.
          03-Jan-2008 17:21:28 [climateprediction.net] Scheduler request succeeded:
          03-Jan-2008 18:14:24 [climateprediction.net] Sending scheduler request: To send trickle-up message.
          03-Jan-2008 18:14:27 [climateprediction.net] Scheduler request succeeded:
          04-Jan-2008 21:22:37 [climateprediction.net] Sending scheduler request: To send trickle-up message.
          04-Jan-2008 21:22:42 [climateprediction.net] Scheduler request succeeded:
          06-Jan-2008 10:48:28 [climateprediction.net] Sending scheduler request: To send trickle-up message.
          06-Jan-2008 10:48:34 [climateprediction.net] Scheduler request succeeded:

          I have trimmed the \"got 0 new tasks\" and \"requesting...\" parts of the messages to prevent phattening.

          The models have changed since I last ran CPDN. It used to run with 30% quote on a 3.2GHz Prescott HT. In that rig, it got pretty much 1 trickle per day. It is now running at 25% on a 2.4GHz Q6600, so basically has exclusive use of 1 core. I would have expected significantly more to be done per 24 hour period in this rig.

          These \"I\'ve resumed\" trickles must be something new, I don\'t recall them when I was running CPDN before. The \"real\" trickles must be larger then the old. The model is at 1.022% so is probably why there are no trickles.

          I can see other people getting trickles reasonably regularly however, and getting 311 credit for them. See link in previous post.


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          Message 32031 - Posted 6 Jan 2008 10:55:55 UTC

            Last modified: 6 Jan 2008 11:16:30 UTC


            There are three different types of model, only the HadCM3 (coupled model) gets 311 credits per trickle. Yours is a HadSM3 (slab) model. Note that since you have a quad-core, and only 1GB of RAM, you need to keep an eye on memory usage - the HadAM3 (SAP) models would not be appropriate for your PC.

            There are a couple of very interesting posts describing the models. The links can be found in the \'README - running the model\' (link via my signature).

            All three types send the \'I\'ve resumed\' trickles, but they only get sent in particular circumstances.

            If you notice, the trickle messages are being displayed erratically, rather than at a regular interval. For example, one at 17:21, and the next at 18:14. I\'d be expecting them to be sent at a regular interval every 4 hours or so (guessing from my overclocked Q6600 Linux system).

            * Is there anything immediately prior to the \'to send trickle-up message\' in the log? Perhaps a suspend/resume line, or an \'exited with zero stats\' line?

            * Are there any \'waiting for memory\' lines? How much memory do your other projects typically take per workunit?

            * Do you have \'keep in memory\' turned on or off (website/your account/view general preferences)?

            * How much CPU time is showing in the Boinc manager for that model?

            * Does the %complete go up steadily, or is it jumping about? (i.e., losing work?)

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            Message 32034 - Posted 6 Jan 2008 12:30:06 UTC

              Last modified: 6 Jan 2008 12:32:13 UTC

              The 1GB is an unfortunate temporary situation. When I ordered the components for this system, I had ordered 2GB of Corsair 4.4.4.12 RAM. Upon building the system and testing it, Memtest-86 v3.3 showed a fault in the RAM, which moved upon swapping the modules around. It has been sent back. The result is that the machine running CPDN is running with a stick stolen from this machine, (another Q6600). At this time, the system is not overclocked, although as it is a G0 chip and has a huge Zalman on it, on a top-notch MoBo, it probably will be when the right memory arrives.

              There does not appear to be any commonality between the messages preceeding the trickle-up. There are 10 projects on the machine, and most of the messages refer to regular events from these. Suspending, Restarting, Uploading - your familiar with this stuff. Just searched stdoutae.txt, no memory issues, just the confirmation of memory usage when BOINC starts and reflects the defaults for the location of the machine. No apparent errors.% done seems to be gradually increasing, not jumping about.

              Is showing 25% CPU use, as expected. Similar resource figures as POEM, about half of what Rosetta is using. Remember, the model is fairly new, ISTR that the demands go up as the model progresses. Leave in memory is set as usual, no graphics running.

              If, as you say, it will not generate a \"real\" trickle until it gets to 1.38% then that is probably why, since it has not. I am suprised to see it performing as poorly as that however when other members of my team with regular hardware are getting scoring trickles every day or so. If the machine trickled now and got 311 for it, that would be a credit/hour of less then 5, hugely below what it is acheiving anywhere else.


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              Message 32035 - Posted 6 Jan 2008 12:50:15 UTC

                Last modified: 6 Jan 2008 12:58:39 UTC


                A slab model should typically be trickling around six times per day given your processor (when not overclocked). Around 23 c/h. Mine complete in about ten days with seven or eight trickles per day on the overclocked box.


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                Message 32036 - Posted 6 Jan 2008 13:18:24 UTC


                  What is the s/TS as displayed in the graphics?
                  That will give us a figure to compare with others.

                  You\'re running a \'slab\' model, where as your team mate (as per your first post), is running a Coupled Ocean model. The 2 types have different trickle intervals, real and model time, so they can\'t be compared.

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                  Message 32039 - Posted 6 Jan 2008 13:33:48 UTC

                    It says in the graphics that it is on step 8069 of 259248, 1.04% crunched, and 71:19:41 of CPU time to get there.
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                    Message 32040 - Posted 6 Jan 2008 14:54:41 UTC


                      That works out to be 6,860 hours for 100%... something is definately wrong there.

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                      Message 32042 - Posted 6 Jan 2008 15:26:36 UTC

                        I have just run several passes of the diagnostics I use, and the h/w seems to check out. What is odd is that I can\'t access the Windows EventLog. I am re-installing Windows at the moment.

                        When I first built it, loaded Windows and BOINC, I left it running for 3 days crunching just SIMAP. It was RAC\'ing over 2000 a day which is about right.

                        <fx>Shrugs</fx> Beats me what\'s up. It is ripping through Rosetta, SIMAP, MCDN and POEM. There are a couple of other projects on there with very small quotas, but even they are churning work out.
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                        Message 32043 - Posted 6 Jan 2008 15:43:21 UTC


                          You could try downloading a coupled model instead (tick \'HadCM3\' on the \'your account/view CPDN preferences/edit\' page).

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                          Message 32044 - Posted 6 Jan 2008 16:34:34 UTC

                            I\'ve suspended CPDN right now. I\'ll play around with it a bit more as time permits. Some of the numbers I needed have come out of this thread anyway, so I know what I should be seeing.
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                            Message 32186 - Posted 15 Jan 2008 20:55:39 UTC

                              Last modified: 15 Jan 2008 20:56:08 UTC

                              Following up a bit, I found an issue with the disk drive, (more specifically with the disk drive cable), which was generating a few errors in the event log. This is now fixed so I switched the model on again to see if that was the cause.

                              When I did, it dropped from 1.101% 78:38:20 back to 1.092% 77:38:05, (machine had been down as I was replacing the cable). I let it run for an hour and it went up to 1.101% at 78:41:02 so basically it had crunched 0.009 in just over an hour.

                              If the trickles come at 1.38% intervals, that gives ~153 hours per trickle, or roughly 2.2 credit per CPU hour, which is a long way from the 23 c/hr quoted earlier.

                              The assumption there is that the progress per unit time is a straight line - is that a fair assumption, (or within reason anyway)?

                              If so, I do not understand the stupifying under-performence of the wu on this box. Projects like POEM, Einstein, Rosetta, MalariaControl, SIMAP etc. are producing much the same RAC as my other Q6600.

                              It is not lack of resources. The task is using less physical and virtual memory then several of the other projects. The 2 machines have different MoBo\'s but one is a top notch Asus, the other an equally good MSI. RAM is the same, disks are the same, OS is the same, graphics cards are the same, heatsinks are the same, clocking is the same. Cabinets are different colours ;)

                              Weird stuff going on in North Sjælland.
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                              Message 32187 - Posted 15 Jan 2008 21:19:19 UTC


                                I\'d try a different model instead, it might be that your WU has become corrupted as a result of the disk problems. Your PC should be good for both HadCM3 and HadSM3 (coupled and slab respectively), although I wouldn\'t recommend HadAM3 until your memory stick is fixed since it uses a lot of RAM. Once you\'re back to 2GB then HadAM3 is a good choice.




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                                Message 32190 - Posted 15 Jan 2008 22:35:33 UTC

                                  Okay, I\'ll abort this one, which I hate to do, and get another to see if it performs better.
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                                  Message 32191 - Posted 16 Jan 2008 8:35:32 UTC

                                    Last modified: 16 Jan 2008 8:38:50 UTC

                                    Grabbed a new model, this one, an \"SM\", and it appears to be running as expected. It has sent a scoring trickle, which upon back calculation gives a c/hr of 23 as expected.

                                    I will allow the model to complete and then force it to run a \"CM\" to see if the problem was specific to the original configuration of the machine, (and/or any resulting fallout), or generic.
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                                    Message 32194 - Posted 16 Jan 2008 12:36:56 UTC


                                      Glad things are working now! It\'ll be interesting to know how the HadSM3 behaves.

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                                      Message 32224 - Posted 19 Jan 2008 9:38:34 UTC

                                        Last modified: 19 Jan 2008 9:57:53 UTC

                                        My Slab Model is around 9.9% and no trickles registered. Any ideas? After a little digging, am I right in thinking this model has been worked on by at least ten different computers?

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                                        Message 32225 - Posted 19 Jan 2008 10:19:36 UTC


                                          Hi MW,

                                          The most likely cause is that there is a firewall, AV, or proxy server which is blocking trickles from the model being uploaded to the servers.

                                          Is there anything in the \'transfers\' tab? (probably not, since you\'re not yet at 33%).

                                          Is there anything in the \'messages\' tab shown when it tries to do a trickle-up message?

                                          Which firewall do you use? Which antivirus do you use? Which proxy server do you use? (if you\'re on a work or university computer or other large network, you\'ll probably be using a proxy server)


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                                          Message 32226 - Posted 19 Jan 2008 10:27:56 UTC

                                            Last modified: 19 Jan 2008 10:30:26 UTC

                                            Adding a bit:
                                            If trickles HAVE been created, and they HAVEN\'T been sent, then you\'ll find them stacked up in the climateprediction.net folder waiting to escape.

                                            And yes, the researchers DID issue that model 10 times. Probably really keen to get several results from different computers for comparison.

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                                            Message 32227 - Posted 19 Jan 2008 10:48:33 UTC - in response to Message 32225.

                                              Mike and Les
                                              No change to firewall (Zone Alarm) or AV (AVG7.5), and at home, not on a server. Messages show \"Scheduler RPC succeeded [server version 509]\" At 10%, roughly how many credits should I have? In the past, I\'ve had no trouble sending trickles and getting credits on Coupled Models, even though, apart from only one completion, they have mostly been unviable! If the model has been issued more than once, will the project servers acknowledge and award credits for trickles already received from other computers?
                                              Where do I find, and how do I access the climateprediction.net folder?

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                                              Message 32228 - Posted 19 Jan 2008 11:15:49 UTC


                                                The folder will typically be in
                                                c:\\program files\\boinc\\projects\\climateprediction.net

                                                Although if you started via BBC/CCE it might be in
                                                c:\\program files\\climate change experiment\\projects\\climateprediction.net

                                                The trickle_up_... files will either be in that folder, or in a subfolder which has the same name as your current model (it\'d be useful to know which).

                                                I\'ve got ZoneAlarm, and it works OK, but does need configuration.

                                                These are my settings:

                                                http://www.climateprediction.net/board/viewtopic.php?t=4272

                                                ...
                                                (on the \'programme control\' tab):
                                                * Boinc client (boinc.exe) granted access to trusted and internet
                                                * Boinc manager (boincmgr.exe or cpdnbbcmgr.exe) granted trust level 3 (\'super\'), and also access to trusted and internet. Manager is NOT configured to act as a server.
                                                * Boinc screensaver (boinc.scr) granted access to trusted

                                                MS firewall is disabled.

                                                I\'ve set up Localhost, 127.0.0.1, and also my static IP to be in the trusted zone
                                                ...

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                                                Message 32232 - Posted 19 Jan 2008 12:36:37 UTC

                                                  Last modified: 19 Jan 2008 12:38:02 UTC

                                                  Hi MW
                                                  The updating of the trickle site seems to be somewhat sluggish at the moment.
                                                  Since about 2100 hours on the 17th Jan trickle updates have become erratic.
                                                  Although not obvious Server Status] is fully on the green light, there must be a blockage some where.
                                                  My model is 8 trickles behind about 24 hours.
                                                  I see your model was picked up on the 17th so even though trickles have been sent like mine ,just not showing up yet,but these things always get sorted sooner or later.
                                                  Cheers
                                                  Chris.
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                                                  Message 32233 - Posted 19 Jan 2008 12:58:23 UTC

                                                    Same here. Last trickle that appears was on 17th. And that one was sent at 3am but apears on the list as 6pm! Something is veryy slooow.
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                                                    Message 32235 - Posted 19 Jan 2008 15:54:35 UTC

                                                      I\'m going to post about the CPDN servers again in the News thread (top of Number Crunching forum section) as they are still doing bizarre things and this could continue for weeks. Luckily all our trickles and zip files do make it home to Oxford, get accepted, and receive their correct credits albeit sometimes delayed.
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                                                      Message 32236 - Posted 19 Jan 2008 15:59:46 UTC

                                                        Rats! I\'ve just opened the CPDN server status page to put a link to it in a News post, and see that uploadatm, which is an upload server for some members, is down.

                                                        http://climateapps2.oucs.ox.ac.uk/cpdnboinc/server_status.php

                                                        Why oh why does this always happen at the weekend?
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                                                        Message 32264 - Posted 20 Jan 2008 15:53:04 UTC

                                                          hi There,
                                                          Is there still a problem and if there is how long is the delay for trickles credit showing on the your account web page.
                                                          Been running hadsm3 task for almost 24 hours its a 7.20% so has just sent its 5th trickles
                                                          20/01/2008 15:40:49|climateprediction.net|Sending scheduler request: To send trickle-up message. Requesting 0 seconds of work, reporting 0 completed tasks
                                                          20/01/2008 15:40:56|climateprediction.net|Scheduler request succeeded: got 0 new tasks

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                                                          Message 32265 - Posted 20 Jan 2008 16:06:37 UTC


                                                            It seems to be lagged back to the 17th or thereabouts. Hopefully this should be resolved on Monday.
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                                                            Message 32266 - Posted 20 Jan 2008 17:47:49 UTC

                                                              When it is working correct we should all have a day with a lot of credits so just keep on cruching away.

                                                              Hope that we don\'t cause the TV and radio to give the wrong forcast. :D
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                                                              Message 32476 - Posted 6 Feb 2008 19:13:18 UTC

                                                                Trickles have not updated for a few days now.
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                                                                Message 32478 - Posted 6 Feb 2008 20:25:40 UTC - in response to Message 32476.

                                                                  Trickles have not updated for a few days now.


                                                                  I\'m trickling twice per day with remarkable monotony. Not sure what\'s happening to your\'s...

                                                                  F.

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                                                                  Message 32481 - Posted 6 Feb 2008 21:08:27 UTC


                                                                    Just checked, and those from 2 machines uploaded an hour ago are showing.

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                                                                    Message 32483 - Posted 6 Feb 2008 23:12:40 UTC

                                                                      I mean not being credited. I have been flat for a couple days. At least I think it\'s been flat.

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                                                                      Message 32485 - Posted 6 Feb 2008 23:29:25 UTC - in response to Message 32483.

                                                                        I mean not being credited. I have been flat for a couple days. At least I think it\'s been flat.

                                                                        Mine\'s working normally in that department too. Perhaps you have just misread it - or the gremlins have got into your account?

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                                                                        Message 32489 - Posted 7 Feb 2008 2:01:31 UTC

                                                                          Hi Pooh Bear

                                                                          My CPDN credits are being exported correctly to the stats sites, but at the moment the credits for the models some of us are crunching & crashing on CPDN beta2 aren\'t being added to our CPDN accounts. I think Tolu intends to fix this some time later.
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                                                                          Message 32497 - Posted 7 Feb 2008 7:10:17 UTC


                                                                            This is happening to me too.

                                                                            Also -
                                                                            I have a WU on my quad which is showing some strange (?) behaviour -
                                                                            CPU time is 270 hrs and rising, time to completion is 7 hrs and static. The % complete is very slowly rising, about .01% per hour, currently at 97.5%.

                                                                            Any ideas, anyone or am I worrying un-necessarily?


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                                                                            Message 32498 - Posted 7 Feb 2008 8:10:56 UTC

                                                                              John
                                                                              Re: your \"strange model\"; is the globe showing as blue? (It sounds like an \'ice world\' which can process either slowly or fast.)
                                                                              There are threads on these; \'sticky\' above, discussion a few threads below here.

                                                                              Credits? Don\'t know.

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                                                                              Message 32500 - Posted 7 Feb 2008 8:31:03 UTC


                                                                                Les - you are a star!
                                                                                I don\'t usually run the graphics (waste of cycles!) but you are correct; I do have an \'ice-world\'.
                                                                                This is the first time I\'ve had one of these, probably not the last.

                                                                                Many thanks from an honorary Aussie born and bred in the UK....
                                                                                (when are you going to join us, Les?)


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                                                                                Message 32501 - Posted 7 Feb 2008 8:36:36 UTC

                                                                                  Last modified: 7 Feb 2008 8:43:07 UTC

                                                                                  Happy to help.
                                                                                  My \'team\' is Climateprediction. (And it\'s spin offs.)
                                                                                  (Currently 49,000+ members.) Has everyone seen the new front page of the project?

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                                                                                  Message 32503 - Posted 7 Feb 2008 8:43:52 UTC


                                                                                    Just had a look at the front page. Yes, it is definitely a lot \'cleaner\' and less confusing than the one I remember.

                                                                                    Well done!

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                                                                                    Message 32504 - Posted 7 Feb 2008 10:41:46 UTC

                                                                                      Crediting did happen last night. I thought I saw it flatlined for about 3 days in a row, but I am not as sure as I was. This major winter weather we had over the past couple of days must have also gotten into my head and all I was seeing was the same snow over and over. (-:

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                                                                                      Message 32544 - Posted 9 Feb 2008 10:31:33 UTC

                                                                                        I too have discovered that my results do not display any trickles. After reading through this thread I have now added BOINC.EXE and BOINCMGR.EXE to my (Microsoft Windows) firewall. I have also checked in C:\\Program Files\\BOINC\\Projects\\climate prediction.net\\hadsm3fub_002m_005917205\\dataout and can see 189 files of type \"NC File\" and type \"P<a><nn>C10\". Are these the trickle files? and if so, how do I get them to upload?

                                                                                        Your help is appreciated,

                                                                                        Charlie Simpson
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                                                                                        Message 32545 - Posted 9 Feb 2008 12:22:20 UTC

                                                                                          Last modified: 9 Feb 2008 12:46:43 UTC

                                                                                          Hi Charlie

                                                                                          If you had any zip files stuck and not uploading, you\'d see them in your BOINC manager\'s Transfers tab window. But I don\'t think anything can be stuck there. The model you mention, which you must have restored from a backup after it crashed at the end of January (well done for rescuing it!), shows regular trickles on its project web page:

                                                                                          http://climateapps2.oucs.ox.ac.uk/cpdnboinc/result.php?resultid=7075242
                                                                                          Its trickles have been getting to Oxford promptly, so it\'s highly likely that your models\' zip files have also been sent without delay. Your crunching model will produce its next zip file for upload at the end of phase 2 (I think after model date 1 Dec). Until then there will only be trickles. The trickles don\'t produce files for upload. They\'re just a brief contact with the server to inform it that the model\'s progressing and you qualify for more credits.

                                                                                          After each successful trickle, you should see BOINC manager messages similar to these:

                                                                                          09/02/2008 10:53:33|climateprediction.net|Sending scheduler request: To send trickle-up message. Requesting 0 seconds of work, reporting 0 completed tasks
                                                                                          09/02/2008 10:53:38|climateprediction.net|Scheduler request succeeded: got 0 new tasks


                                                                                          You can see the web pages for your models by going to your account (thro BOINC manager, or click on your name here, or select Your account in the menu on the left of this page), then clicking on Computers, then your computer\'s results.

                                                                                          The model isn\'t crunching very fast. Have you got the CPDN screensaver enabled? If so, I would turn the screensaver off and crunch slightly faster.
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                                                                                          Message 32546 - Posted 9 Feb 2008 12:54:30 UTC


                                                                                            A trickle file is of type xml.
                                                                                            It\'s easy to find them; their name starts like this: trickle_up_. (Followed by the the name used for the model.)

                                                                                            They are only a few bytes long, and are uploaded in an instant, so unless you have the network access set to \'off\' for a while, or are having network/firewall difficulties, you won\'t see one.

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                                                                                            Message 32548 - Posted 9 Feb 2008 14:22:42 UTC

                                                                                              Thanks for your help. I was looking in the wrong place. I assumed that the reult id at the top of the list was the most recent one, and thought that, because what turned out to be the correct result, showed \'Client Error\' and the Server State as being \'Over\', then it would not be the most up to date.

                                                                                              (Hope that this makes sense!!)
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                                                                                              Message 32549 - Posted 9 Feb 2008 15:39:52 UTC


                                                                                                Perfect sense. :)
                                                                                                The list is sorted numerically on the Result ID and not the date, so the current model is not necessarily at the top. (Bit confusing.)

                                                                                                The \'error\', etc are from the first \'end result\' contact with the server, and will stay that way, as the software has no means of updating it to the NEXT \'end result\' contact. And you\'ll get an abrupt rejection of your \'final\' final result when you get there. Again, a software \'feature\', used by other projects, but totally ignored here.

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                                                                                                Message 32743 - Posted 26 Feb 2008 20:06:12 UTC

                                                                                                  Looks like the trickles may be stuck again.
                                                                                                  None showing since the outage.
                                                                                                  Chris
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                                                                                                  Message 32744 - Posted 26 Feb 2008 22:00:58 UTC


                                                                                                    The trickle server was one of two that had filled up, so it may take a while for trickles to appear on accounts.
                                                                                                    As long as the upload message was followed by a \"succeeded\" message, everything will be fine.

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                                                                                                    Message 32746 - Posted 26 Feb 2008 23:02:51 UTC - in response to Message 32744.


                                                                                                      The trickle server was one of two that had filled up, so it may take a while for trickles to appear on accounts.
                                                                                                      As long as the upload message was followed by a \"succeeded\" message, everything will be fine.



                                                                                                      Have I missed something? You say \"filled up\" as though it is common knowledge why my browser could not connect.

                                                                                                      Could you point to somewhere that explains why the service was down, please?

                                                                                                      F.
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                                                                                                      Message 32747 - Posted 26 Feb 2008 23:30:48 UTC

                                                                                                        Last modified: 26 Feb 2008 23:32:50 UTC

                                                                                                        Fred,

                                                                                                        Although the proliferation of message boards can be confusing, when the BOINC message board is off-line (i.e. this one) then one place to look is the News section of the \'independent\' (or PHP) message board: here. The reverse also applies: if the PHP board is down, then look here for news.

                                                                                                        There is also a server status page that will generally run even when other bits of the BOINC-supplied Web site are not running. It\'s here.

                                                                                                        Team message boards are also a good source of this sort of status information.

                                                                                                        Iain

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                                                                                                        Message 32748 - Posted 26 Feb 2008 23:33:39 UTC

                                                                                                          Hi Fred

                                                                                                          Yesterday, Monday, there was a CPDN outage of some of the servers. This forum was totally down. We didn\'t notice that the problem was affecting trickle-ups until late at night - when I\'d checked the CPDN server status page the upload servers which accept trickles appeared to be running.

                                                                                                          In addition, the CPDN programmer Milo who would normally tell us what was happening is away on CPDN business in Trieste.

                                                                                                          Anyway, as soon as we realised there was a real trickle and file upload problem, which was really late at night, I posted about it in the News threads of the other CPDN forums. But I couldn\'t post in the news thread here because this forum was still down.........

                                                                                                          http://climateapps2.oucs.ox.ac.uk/cpdnboinc/forum_thread.php?id=5447

                                                                                                          If ever this forum is down, it\'s a good idea to go to the CPDN independent forum News thread:

                                                                                                          http://www.climateprediction.net/board/viewtopic.php?p=74174#74174

                                                                                                          Sorry about all that. If our trickles have to wait because of an outage it does no harm, but our credits may be delayed for a day or two.
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                                                                                                          Message 32749 - Posted 26 Feb 2008 23:34:30 UTC

                                                                                                            Last modified: 26 Feb 2008 23:37:52 UTC

                                                                                                            Unlike other projects that can throw away data that doesn\'t meet it\'s needs, this project keeps ALL data returned, and as a result it has accumulated Terabytes of it, all of which needs to be stored.

                                                                                                            This has been mentioned in a lot of threads over the last few years, usually as a reply to complaints/queries about missing trickles/credit. If you go back over the post titles of this Number crunching section, you\'ll find similar things mentioned.

                                                                                                            With this lastest down time, there was a post in the News and Announcements topic of all of the associated websites that could still be reached, the main one being the alternative site here at the Open University.

                                                                                                            As for

                                                                                                            ... You say \"filled up\" as though it is common knowledge ...
                                                                                                            I\'m a moderator, and I get to hear about \"inside info\", which I, (and other mods), pass on if appropriate, as I did here when asked.

                                                                                                            There is also a post in \"News\", (and one or more threads here and \"the other site\"), about why there were severe slow downs around Christmas and into the new year. (Data extraction for the physicists.)

                                                                                                            edit
                                                                                                            I was beaten to it by TWO others this time. :)

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                                                                                                            Message 32750 - Posted 27 Feb 2008 0:04:56 UTC

                                                                                                              Thanks for the prompt replies, all.

                                                                                                              I was not really whinging (well... I suppose I was, really!!). I guess my real beef is that I would have expected some explanation of what had caused the system to go down to be one of the first items to appear on these boards as an announcement once the service returned, rather than as a cryptic response to a post here in NC.

                                                                                                              Don\'t get me wrong - I\'m not knocking the valuable service provided by the mods here but, being used the rather more anarchic boards on SETI where any unannounced downtime creates a storm of posts I was surprised at the lack of obvious information.

                                                                                                              I have now bookmarked the alternative pages for announcements so should be more relaxed in the event of similar occurences in the future.

                                                                                                              F.
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                                                                                                              Message 32751 - Posted 27 Feb 2008 8:29:50 UTC


                                                                                                                Because SETI has short tasks, any downtime immediately results in tens of thousands of machines which are sitting idle. The situation here is that since the tasks are much longer, there is only a very small pool of machines looking for work at any one time. So downtime tends to be ignored (or not even noticed) by most people - it is just the forums which people notice. And again, because we have two sets of forums, the phpBB ones are the most popular and people might not notice if the boinc forums are down.


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                                                                                                                Message 32752 - Posted 27 Feb 2008 8:34:15 UTC

                                                                                                                  The situation persists.
                                                                                                                  Perhaps a well aimed kick is in order...
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                                                                                                                  Message 32753 - Posted 27 Feb 2008 9:16:49 UTC

                                                                                                                    Last modified: 27 Feb 2008 9:19:23 UTC

                                                                                                                    Just to remind everyone that it\'s very quick and easy to check the server status at any time by looking at this page - there\'s a link to it in the menu to the left of this screen. You can also elect to receive an e-mail whenever something is posted in \"News and Announcements\" in either this forum or the phb one.

                                                                                                                    Although the servers are now operational, it will no doubt take some time for all the stats to update.

                                                                                                                    Les, I think you get \"beaten to the draw\" in answering queries not just because you don\'t type fast enough but also because you take the time to answer questions fully and understandably. We\'re not about to complain - thank you! ;-) And all the other mods too of course, you all do a great job.


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                                                                                                                    Message 32754 - Posted 27 Feb 2008 9:18:26 UTC

                                                                                                                      Last modified: 27 Feb 2008 9:22:00 UTC

                                                                                                                      I think that some time ago, the export files here started being created later than originally, so that it was AFTER the stats sites did their main update. (BOINCstats, anyway), so that the cpdn credits are \'out of sync\' by a day.

                                                                                                                      So the last BOINCstats results show no credits for anyone, which is a day after the outage ended.
                                                                                                                      Currently, they show me as having 640,433 credits, whereas my account page says I have 642,565.94, which is about right. The next update in about 8 hours should show everyone with daily credit again.

                                                                                                                      edit

                                                                                                                      This time YOU beat me to it SP.
                                                                                                                      You gotta laugh.

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                                                                                                                      Message 32755 - Posted 27 Feb 2008 9:44:12 UTC

                                                                                                                        Hi Guys.
                                                                                                                        Think you are missing the point here.
                                                                                                                        This has nothing to do with stats or credits.
                                                                                                                        The trickles are not appearing on accounts,personally have had nothing since 11.51 on the 25th.The sever has been up and running for nearly 24 hours since the outage,so would normally expect to see some movement.
                                                                                                                        The server page is useful but does not always tell the full story it can be fully on green but still mask a problem, as I believe it is at the moment.
                                                                                                                        Of courrse stats or credits cannot be updated untill we see a few trickles.
                                                                                                                        Cheers
                                                                                                                        Chris
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                                                                                                                        Message 32756 - Posted 27 Feb 2008 13:18:05 UTC

                                                                                                                          TylerChris
                                                                                                                          This happens sometimes, the trickle server gets filled.
                                                                                                                          I even completed a model yesterday, that is not showing as any activity since the 25th.
                                                                                                                          Not to worry they will be listed and you will get credit. By the amount of credits you have you must have been through this before and got the credits.

                                                                                                                          Cheers
                                                                                                                          Ray

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                                                                                                                          Message 32760 - Posted 27 Feb 2008 16:46:00 UTC

                                                                                                                            There were several servers that got low on space, and that was why there was an outage. They moved some of the data and got the servers back up, but are still working on getting more data moved, which takes a lot of background time and bandwidth. Once they are at a comfortable level of move, they will turn the trickle crediting process back on (which also takes a lot of background time and bandwidth and why it is only run once a day).
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                                                                                                                            Message 32761 - Posted 27 Feb 2008 17:01:57 UTC

                                                                                                                              Hi thanks for the info Pooh Bear.
                                                                                                                              If the situation is still ongoing everything falls into place.
                                                                                                                              The reason of my origional post was the quote from the news thread,

                                                                                                                              Many of you will have noticed Monday\'s CPDN server outage. Tolu worked all Monday and a good part of the night on unscheduled server maintenance, mostly moving large volumes of data. All the CPDN servers are again fully functional.

                                                                                                                              which clearly is not the case.
                                                                                                                              But why was this, if known, not reported earlier!
                                                                                                                              Thanks again


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                                                                                                                              Message 32765 - Posted 28 Feb 2008 4:31:54 UTC

                                                                                                                                Hi Chris

                                                                                                                                When I posted that everything was fully-functional again, I thought it was. There are obviously additional functions that have to be enabled individually and don\'t show up as on or off on the server status page. I just can\'t trouble Tolu any more over this unless it\'s a problem affecting the running of the models (which it isn\'t) because he\'s holding the fort alone in Oxford while Milo\'s away all week helping with climate modelling in Italy.

                                                                                                                                There have been previous delays in trickles showing on our model web pages, or credit exports to the stats sites, and everything has always sorted itself out eventually. If the delay is longer than usual this time we\'ll just have to be patient. Hope everyone will understand.
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                                                                                                                                Message 32767 - Posted 28 Feb 2008 6:43:21 UTC - in response to Message 32765.

                                                                                                                                  By the way, another function not apparently working is the account updating process. One can change resource share, for example, and it shows the updated session on the account, but it does not reflect the change when you do an update from the client side.


                                                                                                                                  Hi Chris

                                                                                                                                  When I posted that everything was fully-functional again, I thought it was. There are obviously additional functions that have to be enabled individually and don\'t show up as on or off on the server status page. I just can\'t trouble Tolu any more over this unless it\'s a problem affecting the running of the models (which it isn\'t) because he\'s holding the fort alone in Oxford while Milo\'s away all week helping with climate modelling in Italy.

                                                                                                                                  There have been previous delays in trickles showing on our model web pages, or credit exports to the stats sites, and everything has always sorted itself out eventually. If the delay is longer than usual this time we\'ll just have to be patient. Hope everyone will understand.


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                                                                                                                                  Message 32768 - Posted 28 Feb 2008 7:56:51 UTC

                                                                                                                                    Last modified: 28 Feb 2008 7:58:00 UTC

                                                                                                                                    I won\'t quote mo.v\'s post again, but it is clear that Tolu has a lot on his plate at the moment with Milo being away!
                                                                                                                                    This delay in credits granting has happened before but it always works out eventually - all that happens is you get a large award of credits on one day.

                                                                                                                                    I\'ve been eagerly awaiting a milestone on CPDN - 100k credits - for the last couple of days now....
                                                                                                                                    (it is reported here, but not on the stats sites yet!)

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                                                                                                                                    Message 32769 - Posted 28 Feb 2008 13:13:58 UTC

                                                                                                                                      Hi Mo
                                                                                                                                      Not universally known but there are three things in life that are certainties:
                                                                                                                                      Death,Taxes and CPDN server problems.
                                                                                                                                      Tis all part of the joys of crunching whether its end of model zip files bouncing around for a week or so or Killer 99 trickles.Thanks to the endeavors of those running the project, soon, all is well again.
                                                                                                                                      But that was not my point.
                                                                                                                                      I don\'t think it is over the top to say your devotion, the time, the effort you must spend helping others truly makes you one of the main assets of the project.[/brown nosing]
                                                                                                                                      But that was not my point.
                                                                                                                                      Yes credits and stat pages are fun, but with my meager resources and choices of projects (two of which are not the best sources of credit and I don\'t mean this one)excludes me from any race.
                                                                                                                                      But that was not my point.
                                                                                                                                      The point I was making in a thread titled \"Trickles not showing\" Was just that.
                                                                                                                                      It was thought at the time the servers were up and running OK but just noticed
                                                                                                                                      they were not.
                                                                                                                                      But could I get this point across?could I heck.
                                                                                                                                      Then out of the dark clouds came a shaft of light in the shape of Pooh Bear,and all became clear;)
                                                                                                                                      Taken that it is very busy behind the scenes,still it only takes seconds to communicate,perhaps some encouragement can be given to those that turn off one of the processes to relay the info someway.
                                                                                                                                      Thanks.
                                                                                                                                      Chris.

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                                                                                                                                      Message 32823 - Posted 3 Mar 2008 8:01:16 UTC

                                                                                                                                        Note, there is still one function which has not been recovered -- even after the servers have been reported as being up and running -- resource share changes, which appear to \'take\', are NOT being transmitted back to the workstations.

                                                                                                                                        I would hope that the additional tweaks which are in view this coming week include that basic functionality.

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                                                                                                                                        Message 32824 - Posted 3 Mar 2008 8:04:17 UTC - in response to Message 32769.

                                                                                                                                          BOINC project server issues are generic to BOINC, SETI\'s validator right now is frozen and when SETI runs into problems, a LOT of folks go into panic mode -- and quickly. SETI has a LOT more resources to work with compared to Climate and still has problems.




                                                                                                                                          Not universally known but there are three things in life that are certainties:
                                                                                                                                          Death,Taxes and CPDN server problems.


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                                                                                                                                          Message 32831 - Posted 3 Mar 2008 16:29:33 UTC

                                                                                                                                            The trickles are catching up :-)))
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                                                                                                                                            Message 32833 - Posted 3 Mar 2008 19:08:19 UTC

                                                                                                                                              Last modified: 3 Mar 2008 19:08:41 UTC

                                                                                                                                              Hi Barry, you said

                                                                                                                                              Note, there is still one function which has not been recovered -- even after the servers have been reported as being up and running -- resource share changes, which appear to \'take\', are NOT being transmitted back to the workstations.


                                                                                                                                              You\'ve probably seen from the news thread that Milo has to do more data-shifting on the CPDN servers this week. If a couple of days after I (hope I can) post in the news that the server jobs are finished, you still notice this problem, could you please post again in this thread & mention it. One of us would then point this out to Milo.

                                                                                                                                              I hope that seems a reasonable course of action.

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                                                                                                                                              Message 32836 - Posted 3 Mar 2008 22:30:27 UTC

                                                                                                                                                Last modified: 3 Mar 2008 22:32:25 UTC

                                                                                                                                                I\'m in Oct 2079 on a model with two final trickles to complete it. Is it safer to hold back the final trickle of the model until the current problems are completely cleared up? My trickles are have caught up now and all the credits exported except one lot on each model. Plenty more to crunch meanwhile on the replacement model which is only at 1925!

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                                                                                                                                                Message 32841 - Posted 4 Mar 2008 0:12:47 UTC

                                                                                                                                                  Last modified: 4 Mar 2008 0:20:36 UTC

                                                                                                                                                  Hi Glaesum

                                                                                                                                                  What you\'re suggesting is a good idea. In the case of CPDN, the server only classifies a model as abandoned if it hasn\'t trickled for I think 6 weeks. So you could safely suspend network activity and just let the final zip file languish in the Transfers window until Milo\'s finished all the server jobs. Or you could suspend the model before it reaches December of its last year.

                                                                                                                                                  Some members with computers they only have intermittent access to may allow network activity once per week or per month. Accumulating trickles and files like this does no harm at all.

                                                                                                                                                  The general opinion seems to be that there\'s a certain, albeit small, risk in attempting to upload a zip file and failing.

                                                                                                                                                  Another good idea is to back models up before they are due to create zip files. Then if necessary you can make them create the file again.
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                                                                                                                                                  Message 32852 - Posted 4 Mar 2008 16:30:16 UTC

                                                                                                                                                    Ok thanks, since I\'m running various projects, suspending the task is the better option here although I did suspend network activity for a couple of days last week when the server probs were at their worst. Indeed I also backed up the model at 98% to protect the final lunge to the finish post.

                                                                                                                                                    I can see there is still quite a delay before trickles are showing in the model results. Keep us posted with Milo\'s progress - we\'re all cheering him on.

                                                                                                                                                    /pg

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                                                                                                                                                    Message 32854 - Posted 4 Mar 2008 16:55:04 UTC - in response to Message 32852.

                                                                                                                                                      Ok thanks, since I\'m running various projects, suspending the task is the better option here although I did suspend network activity for a couple of days last week when the server probs were at their worst. Indeed I also backed up the model at 98% to protect the final lunge to the finish post.

                                                                                                                                                      I can see there is still quite a delay before trickles are showing in the model results. Keep us posted with Milo\'s progress - we\'re all cheering him on.

                                                                                                                                                      /pg


                                                                                                                                                      I second the \"keep us posted\" sentiment - pretty please?

                                                                                                                                                      I\'ve just suspended a model that is a couple of trickles and the zip away from completion.

                                                                                                                                                      F.
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                                                                                                                                                      Message 32874 - Posted 6 Mar 2008 23:08:10 UTC

                                                                                                                                                        I\'ve run my 80yr coupled model to within 3hrs of completion and, with the end of the week coming, I wondered how things were getting on and whether it is deemed safe now to send the final trickle and result upload zips?

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                                                                                                                                                        Message 32875 - Posted 6 Mar 2008 23:30:24 UTC - in response to Message 32874.

                                                                                                                                                          I\'ve run my 80yr coupled model to within 3hrs of completion and, with the end of the week coming, I wondered how things were getting on and whether it is deemed safe now to send the final trickle and result upload zips?

                                                                                                                                                          Trickles are still not getting through promptly. I would hang off until the middle of next week and then assess the situation again if I were you.

                                                                                                                                                          F.
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                                                                                                                                                          Message 32876 - Posted 7 Mar 2008 3:26:30 UTC


                                                                                                                                                            Well it\'s said that \"No news is good news\".
                                                                                                                                                            However, we haven\'t heard from Milo yet, so it this case it\'s \"No news is bad news\".

                                                                                                                                                            And, as old hands will know, the weekend is when Murphy likes to show up and drop a spanner in the works.


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                                                                                                                                                            Message 32916 - Posted 11 Mar 2008 15:01:38 UTC

                                                                                                                                                              Last modified: 11 Mar 2008 15:02:04 UTC

                                                                                                                                                              the latest trickle (a couple of hours ago) showed on the database within a minute and there was a general catch up of more trickles yesterday, the 10th. so I think that is a cue to run out the old model to completion. credits seem to follow within the day.

                                                                                                                                                              it wasn\'t impatience merely for the trickles, just wanting to follow up on the other thread as my new model is running even slower and I\'d like it to crunch on its own for a while first.

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                                                                                                                                                              Message 32917 - Posted 11 Mar 2008 16:10:52 UTC - in response to Message 32916.

                                                                                                                                                                I just had a huge jump in RAC, so they must have processed my trickles and zip files last night. :)

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                                                                                                                                                                Message 32918 - Posted 11 Mar 2008 16:41:52 UTC - in response to Message 32917.

                                                                                                                                                                  I just had a huge jump in RAC, so they must have processed my trickles and zip files last night. :)

                                                                                                                                                                  All my trickles caught up yesterday (but not in time for the overnight update of stats - that comes tonight :)

                                                                                                                                                                  Perfect timing as my latest model is due to complete in about 20 hours, then I can let the one that I paused off the leash to finish its last couple of trickles and the zip. So, by my calculation, that has taken about 10 days to get things sorted out.

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                                                                                                                                                                  Message 34302 - Posted 18 Jul 2008 7:19:28 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                    NO Trickles showing since
                                                                                                                                                                    around midday UTC 17/07.
                                                                                                                                                                    Chris.

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                                                                                                                                                                    Message 34303 - Posted 18 Jul 2008 7:54:08 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                      My CPDN slab has sent three trickles since then but none of them are showing. Thanks for pointing this out well before the weekend. I\'ll let Milo know.
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                                                                                                                                                                      Message 34304 - Posted 18 Jul 2008 8:16:42 UTC - in response to Message 34303.

                                                                                                                                                                        My CPDN slab has sent three trickles since then but none of them are showing. Thanks for pointing this out well before the weekend. I\'ll let Milo know.

                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks mo.v
                                                                                                                                                                        Chris

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                                                                                                                                                                        Message 34305 - Posted 18 Jul 2008 9:07:18 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                          Last modified: 18 Jul 2008 9:09:45 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                          Milo says he won\'t be available to investigate what the server is or isn\'t doing until Tuesday. He\'s mentioning the trickle recording problem to Tolu in case Tolu has a moment to look into it. Otherwise we\'ll have to wait until Tuesday for Milo to sort this out.

                                                                                                                                                                          Isn\'t it funny how the CPDN servers or server programs almost always play up just before the weekend?
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                                                                                                                                                                          Message 34306 - Posted 18 Jul 2008 9:27:46 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                            Just had a message board slowdown (error: too many connections), following which a trickle appeared on my result 7323206 timed at 18 Jul 2008 09:16:43 (it\'ll actually be one I sent up the best part of a day ago).

                                                                                                                                                                            So I think the server may have been reminded that the weekend doesn\'t officially start until this afternoon.....

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                                                                                                                                                                            Message 34323 - Posted 20 Jul 2008 14:47:56 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                              Last modified: 20 Jul 2008 14:49:07 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                              Hi Richard, long time no speak. All sorts of odd things going on. I\'ve just noticed that your message, shown here as having been posted on Friday morning (which appears to be the case from your reference to the weekend) was (until this post) listed on the message board list as having been posted 4 hours ago!!!!!!!!! (For reference, in my opinion, it is now 3.48 on SUNDAY afternoon!)

                                                                                                                                                                              For quite a while now, there very often seems to be at least one server shown as not running on the server status page.
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                                                                                                                                                                              Message 34324 - Posted 20 Jul 2008 15:54:49 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                Hi Margaret

                                                                                                                                                                                That was my fault. I posted a few hours ago about a model of mine that has stopped trickling, but after posting I checked some other members\' trickles and decided I may have a problem with the model itself or my BOINC and will need to start a new thread. So I immediately deleted my own post in order not to confuse matters here. If you delete your own post (by editing it and deleting all the content) the thread shows the time this was done. Everybody can do this for an hour after making a post.

                                                                                                                                                                                The CPDN main project servers are now showing all green. Sometimes the CPDN server status page displays false reds, particularly for the upload servers. If we see red for the SAP, BBC or Beta subproject servers, as far as I know the red\'s always real.
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