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pete.mcallister
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Message 47478 - Posted: 6 Nov 2013, 9:07:29 UTC

Hi all,

Have a spare computer that I'd like to use on and off to help with the climateprediction.net project.

I've downloaded and installed the BOINC manager and added the project for climateprediction.net successfully then restarted the computer.

However the client is showing "No work available to process".

I've went to project commands and clicked update but still the same message appears. Is there anything else I need to be doing to get things started?

Thanks!

Les Bayliss
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Message 47479 - Posted: 6 Nov 2013, 10:02:49 UTC - in response to Message 47478.

This project doesn't always have work. It comes in batches, and then there's a wait until enough models are returned for the researchers to decide on what area of interest to look at next.

And at the moment we're in a long period of no work. I suspect that this is because the queue of running models is being run down in preparation for the change over to a new server running BOINC version 7, which is also less customised than at present.
The project people have been working on this for months, and the projected finish date earlier in the year was November.

There is some work available, from both models that fail on a computer and get re-issued, and from those that complete, and then get extended by an auto-regen program, that produces the data to extend the model further into the future.
But this quickly gets grabbed by the thousands of machines waiting to get work.

Also, there's a delay feature that prevents computers from constantly asking for, and getting, large amounts of work. This is set for one hour.
Clicking Update just resets the count down timer.

pete.mcallister
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Message 47482 - Posted: 6 Nov 2013, 10:40:45 UTC - in response to Message 47479.

Thanks for the information Les, good to know there's not anything wrongly configured from my end.

In fact I've been assigned some work as we speak so a good start by the looks of things!

Kind regards,
Pete.

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Message 47484 - Posted: 6 Nov 2013, 19:33:46 UTC - in response to Message 47482.

Thanks for the information Les, good to know there's not anything wrongly configured from my end.

In fact I've been assigned some work as we speak so a good start by the looks of things!

Kind regards,
Pete.

Pete,
Welcome to the project and the boards.

You are off to a good start: your task already sent a Trickle. (Trickles indicate to Oxford that the computer remains active and conveys summary climate statics from the Model to Oxford's database. Trickles are also the basis for awarding credit for work done.)

You are the third person to receive that task. One failed to start (permissions problem in the participant's computer) and the other failed at the 10-year point, a familiar issue.

These Models are vulnerable at the 10/20/30/40-year points, while it generates restart-dumps (a large [~50MB] data set which enables another computer to pick-up the work.) It is strongly recommended not to interrupt CPDN at those points. Best way to avoid the problem to not shut-down or stop CPDN between 24.5-25/49.5-50/74.5-75/99.5-100%.

We also find failures if antivirus scans lock a file when CPDN needs it. So, we recommend excluding both boinc folders from antivirus scans. (That exclusion also prevents false positives, as sometimes occur with certain antivirus programs.)

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"We have met the enemy and he is us." -- Pogo
Greetings from coastal Washington state, the scenic US Pacific Northwest.

obstschale
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Message 47788 - Posted: 13 Dec 2013, 11:37:09 UTC

Thx for this information. I was wondering why I don't get tasks, too :) So that means. There is nothing I can do but wait. Fortunately, there are other BOINC projects I can contribute to :)

rbpeake
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Message 47879 - Posted: 27 Dec 2013, 23:48:51 UTC
Last modified: 27 Dec 2013, 23:54:15 UTC

I appear to have the same issue, although the list of applications available is difficult to associate with a specific new project, and there seem to be a number of completed project's applications listed on the My Account preferences section.

For example, under "Preferences for the Project", "Run Only the Selected Applications" list shows the following choices:

UK Met Office HadSM3 Slab Model: no
UK Met Office HadCM3L Coupled Model: no
UK Met Office HadAM3: no
UK Met Office HadSM3 Mid-Holocene: no
UK Met Office HadAM3P: no
UK Met Office FAMOUS: no
UK Met Office HadAM3P European Region: no
UK Met Office HadAM3P Southern Africa: no
UK Met Office HadAM3P Pacific North West: no
UK Met Office HadAM3P Australia New Zealand: no
UK Met Office HadCM3 Coupled Model Full Resolution Ocean: yes

I would like to run the RAPIT project (hadcm3n) but do not see that application on the list! Somewhat confusing, if I may say so!
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Bob P.

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Message 47880 - Posted: 28 Dec 2013, 0:57:04 UTC - in response to Message 47879.

RAPIT is an alternate name for the HadCM3 Coupled Full Resolution Ocean model. So you are already set to receive it.

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Les Bayliss
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Message 47881 - Posted: 28 Dec 2013, 1:08:15 UTC - in response to Message 47879.

Hi Bob

Yes, we finished a large batch of the regional models (For the EU region), a few weeks ago, and it's unlikely that any more work will be available until the new year. It's most likely that the research centres, (Unis and what ever else), will close for a short while over this time of year.

As for the Projects, these are associated with, / run using, different climate models as required. It's these model names that are in the list of choices, mostly along with what's using them.

Except in the case of the last one, which includes the short model name, as well as the long name.

i.e. UK Met Office HadCM3 Coupled Model Full Resolution Ocean
where Had stands for UK Met Office Hadley Centre
and CM3 stands for: version 3 of the Coupled Model Full Resolution Ocean, one of many types of climate model developed by the Hadley Centre.

This is the model type used by the RAPID-RAPIT project.

There was a batch of these due to be released at about the same time as the batch of regional models, but the server at the centre where the data goes, BADC, proved to be far too small, and had to be upgraded. Again, the new year for these.



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rbpeake
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Message 47882 - Posted: 28 Dec 2013, 1:09:03 UTC - in response to Message 47880.

Thank you!
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Regards,
Bob P.

MichaelO
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Message 47891 - Posted: 30 Dec 2013, 1:33:48 UTC

Sirs:

I am seeking assistance in searching the forum for a procedure to transfer inactive tasks downloaded on one local machine, to another local machine that has no active tasks, or pending inactive tasks.

Specifically, I am looking for a step-by-step, or how-to, procedure, that will allow me to move stored inactive tasks between locally-networked machines so they can be run.

I wouldn't have normally considered doing this, except there aren't any new tasks forthcoming; and my team's work units have been dropping off - partly due to my own local machines running out of work.

Thanks in advance for help.

Best regards,

MichaelO
Team Pacific Northwest


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Les Bayliss
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Message 47893 - Posted: 30 Dec 2013, 2:05:59 UTC - in response to Message 47891.

First, it has to be the same type of OS;
Mac to Mac
Windows to Windows
Linux to Linux

Next, it may cause problems if the OS version is very different. To find out, try it.

Lastly, it was found years ago by the Oxford researchers that different processors (e.g. AMD & Intel), created different results from the same starting data set. So much so, that the two end results were completely different.

Part of this is due to the fact that climate is an averaging of weather, and weather is a "chaotic system". And part is due to the difference in how different brands of processor handle the floating point calcs. Which makes it hard/impossible to tell what created the end result, changing weather, or a change in computer.

So this isn't really encouraged on a mass scale.

But, to do it just requires that the entire BOINC folder with all of it's sub-folders by copied from one computer and pasted into another computer's BOINC area, over writing what was there before.

Which causes problems when running multiple projects on one / both computers, and may cause server confusion when different specs suddenly appear for the receiving computer. Possibly cured by juggling some of the files in the BOINC folder.



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Profile mo.v
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Message 47896 - Posted: 30 Dec 2013, 2:27:49 UTC

Hi Michael

Here are your attached computers:

http://climateapps2.oerc.ox.ac.uk/cpdnboinc/hosts_user.php?userid=91745
Are you hoping to transfer some unstarted or unfinished tasks from computer Rank 1 to computer Rank 3?

If this is what you want to do, are either or both of these computers also crunching work for other projects eg Einstein?

(Don't try to do anything before receiving detailed instructions.)
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MichaelO
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Message 47906 - Posted: 1 Jan 2014, 10:22:34 UTC - in response to Message 47896.

Hi mo.v,

1. Yes, these are two of the three running machines which I want to transfer some of the pending work.

2. I am running SETI files on all three machines.

I started with SETI; and have continued with it. But, in recent years, I have worked to emphasize weather project number crunching in support of the Pacific Northwest team.

Best regards; and I hope your New Year is a happy one!

Michael O.
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Message 47930 - Posted: 5 Jan 2014, 18:51:03 UTC
Last modified: 5 Jan 2014, 18:51:57 UTC

Hi again Michael

Here is a suggestion about something you could do to crunch some models from computer #1 on computer #3. #1 is the source computer which I've numbered according to its place in the CPDN list and #3 will be the destination computer if you decide to do this.

* You need some sort of external storage eg an external drive to move stuff from one computer then onto the other.

* Both computers are Windows so the CPDN server shouldn't mind.

* SETI will not allow work to be downloaded onto one computer then the results uploaded from another. This could make this idea impossible. Bearing this in mind you may prefer just to keep #3 busy with SETI work using a short work buffer of 1 or 2 days until more CPDN work becomes available. Then in the Projects tab first stop SETI downloading new tasks and then increase the work buffer to 10 days to maximise what you get from CPDN.

* If you do want to go ahead, first empty the Recycle bin on both computers. So if you accidentally delete the wrong thing you can immediately restore it.

* Do not try to move individual models. There was once a method for this that worked but that was several years ago and probably for BOINC 5. It was very complicated and the person who designed the method no longer posts. So instead you must move or copy the entire Data folder contents.

* Find where the BOINC Data folder / directory is on both computers. Bear in mind that BOINC gives the same name (BOINC) to both its Data folder and its Programs folder. You will not be doing anything with the Programs folder, which is the one that contains a subfolder called Location. The Data folder contains a subfolder called Projects. Here's a list of where the Data directory should be:

http://boincfaq.mundayweb.com/index.php?language=1&view=592&sessionID=ad14436e0d6a6b9295985e7343791057

* You will lose all the tasks on computer #3 (SETI tasks) so complete them first and set SETI to No New Work.

* Suspend all the projects and all the tasks on both computers. Suspend the tasks individually in the Tasks tab so they can be restarted individually.

* On both computers exit completely from BOINC (File > Exit).

* On #3 navigate to the BOINC Data folder, open it, select the entire contents, Copy, then Paste these entire contents somewhere safe. Could be somewhere on computer #3, could be elsewhere. Saving these contents means that later you can restore this folder if you want. Name what you've saved carefully: where it came from & the date.

* Now delete the entire contents of the Data folder on #3. You now have an empty Data folder.

* On #1 navigate to the BOINC Data folder, double-click on it to open up its contents. Select all the contents, then Copy. Paste these contents on an external drive.

* Link #3 to the external drive. Copy the contents (that came from #1) and paste them into the Data folder of #3. To do this right-click on the Data folder and in the drop-down menu select Paste.

* You should now have the same Data folder contents on both computers. You can reopen BOINC Manager and should see the same tasks on both computers. You will have to decide which models are to be completed on #1 and restart them there, and which are to be started or completed on #3 and unsuspend them there.

* When models have completed and reported on one computer I think it should be possible to abort them on the other computer.

* At any time you can revert to the original BOINC Data folder contents on computer #3 by exiting completely from BOINC, deleting the Data folder contents, then pasting into it the original contents that you saved. But if everything goes as planned you won't want to do this.


* I think this method should work and it would be useful for completing models for example from a computer that is going to be scrapped or have its disk wiped. But I don't particularly recommend doing this in other circumstances. I think we have to get used to the fact that CPDN work is often now intermittent and we should keep our computers busy by joining more projects, of which there are plenty.
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MichaelO
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Message 47934 - Posted: 6 Jan 2014, 3:56:32 UTC - in response to Message 47930.

Hi mo.v,

Thank you very much for these step-by-step instructions.

I like your suggestion of trying to reduce the SETI backlog first; and then attempting to capture a large amount of CPDN work. I will try this more conservative route first. In any case, it will allow me to evaluate how quickly the SETI backlog will be cleared out before proceeding with any transfer attempt as you describe.

Best regards,

Michael




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Message 47936 - Posted: 6 Jan 2014, 6:56:54 UTC

I think that's a good strategy. Especially as I forgot to mention a serious disadvantage to that method. On both computers you'd have to keep suspended the models not being crunched on it, and BOINC projects refuse to send work to computers where any task from those projects is suspended. This could create a very annoying situation where you might see work available but not be allowed to download any of it.

There are some tips about how to maximise the number of models a computer gets when they become available in the last few posts here.
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